The RTS Debate, everyone has there favourite Options

[Glasseater]

all the talk in the v17 feedback got me thinking about good RTS games.
what is everyones favourite?
Mine has to be starcraft just because it is so balanced while each race is still quite unique.
let the debate begin

[R4N]

1. Generals: zero hour
2. Red alert 2
3. Kanes wrath
4. TA
5. AOE2
6. Dark reign 2

Never got into blizzard RTS games.

[wolfmother]

Starcraft is pretty good.
CnC3/Kane's Wraith is a staple for me.

Dark Reign used to be one of my favourites, but in retrospect it kind of tried to do too much at once.

Netstorm was one of the most brilliant RTSes I've ever played, but it's just plain too weird for most people.

TA has a weird combination of designs and features that were 10 years ahead of its time and a few bits that weren't.

[Glasseater]

the commander has always ruined the ta series for me ive never liked the concept of a unit that takes out your base when it dies. i really liked zero hour but for me again its those rts that have weapons that rape from such a large distance away which makes them annoying as hell at times. So many many rts go for that weapon that is just so overpowered.I guess thats why i lean more towards the blizzard rts and the aoe series

[oohms]

Total Annihilation is easily the best for me... but cnc3 kw and red alert 2 are also good fun. The sup com games are fun, but feel like they are lacking something

[That Commander]

Another vote for Total Annihilation.

I understand that the Commander in TA is meant to be the answer to the tank-rush tactic.

Also, if your Commander dies, if you have been playing effectively, really it should only take out a small portion of (one of) your base(s)

On the issue of super weapons, TA is littered with them. What I noticed amongst my friends is they'd go straight for the LRPC or nukes without building a proper offense or defense, and would thus usually get steamrolled. So to make games more interesting, we'd ban all long range super weapons.

An even more interesting strategy was to ban all units above level one. As a result, the number of units fighting was epic. The battle lasted several hours and kills on each side racked up in the thousands.

Cheers

[Rangers]

I vote Counter Strike :3

[Glasseater]

I vote Counter Strike :3

most noobs do

[TheTacoMan]

Hmm, i'm a huge RTS fan, so this is a very hard choice for me...

1. Wacraft 3 - It'd be impossible not to list this as the best RTS. As well as having a solid base game, thousands of custom maps have been made for WC3. I still actively play WC3, both custom maps and the base RTS.
2. CnC3 - IMO, the best CnC game. It had a bit of balance issues at the start, but once they sorted those out, it was a really solid unique RTS. Then they ruined it with Kane's Wrath (which was still fun, but fucked up the balance). CnC3 was the last RTS i really got into competitively
3. Red Alert 3 - It may not be balanced, it may not have as big of a competitive leg as other RTS's like CnC and WC3, but dammit, it's just so ridiculous and fun! What other game features battle bears and man cannons? And lets not forget the cheesy cut scenes!
4. Total Annhilation - Supreme Commander, while being a valiant effort, somehow managed to not capture that feel that the original TA had. Maybe it's just rose-tinted glasses, but i still remember dogfights between dozens of jets swarming across the map, while my solid WALL of turrets kept my base safe.
5. Age of Empires II - The third one was crap, but AoE II took all of the great things about AoE I and improved them!

[TheTacoMan]

the commander has always ruined the ta series for me ive never liked the concept of a unit that takes out your base when it dies. i really liked zero hour but for me again its those rts that have weapons that rape from such a large distance away which makes them annoying as hell at times. So many many rts go for that weapon that is just so overpowered.I guess thats why i lean more towards the blizzard rts and the aoe series

The concept of the super weapon is designed around stopping a turtle. In CnC games it is particularly prevalent - If someone decides to turtle in their base past the initial rush stage, it becomes almost impossible to break a whole in their defence. You could argue that there are counters to this such as units that outrange defense structures (V3 rockets ect), but a good turtler can take care of those.

The super weapon has enough drawbacks (you have to tech up, it costs a lot of money AND it has a recharge time) to balance it in most of the games it exists in.

[R4N]

Flame Tank

the Turtle killer.

[Glasseater]

the commander has always ruined the ta series for me ive never liked the concept of a unit that takes out your base when it dies. i really liked zero hour but for me again its those rts that have weapons that rape from such a large distance away which makes them annoying as hell at times. So many many rts go for that weapon that is just so overpowered.I guess thats why i lean more towards the blizzard rts and the aoe series

The concept of the super weapon is designed around stopping a turtle. In CnC games it is particularly prevalent - If someone decides to turtle in their base past the initial rush stage, it becomes almost impossible to break a whole in their defence. You could argue that there are counters to this such as units that outrange defense structures (V3 rockets ect), but a good turtler can take care of those.

The super weapon has enough drawbacks (you have to tech up, it costs a lot of money AND it has a recharge time) to balance it in most of the games it exists in.

i understand why super weapons were introduced but i still dont like them as the counter for the turtle. there is a reason most games with super weapons never became as popular for competitions as games such as wc3 and sc. I think resource limits are a more effective way of controlling the turtle.

[R4N]

the commander has always ruined the ta series for me ive never liked the concept of a unit that takes out your base when it dies. i really liked zero hour but for me again its those rts that have weapons that rape from such a large distance away which makes them annoying as hell at times. So many many rts go for that weapon that is just so overpowered.I guess thats why i lean more towards the blizzard rts and the aoe series

The concept of the super weapon is designed around stopping a turtle. In CnC games it is particularly prevalent - If someone decides to turtle in their base past the initial rush stage, it becomes almost impossible to break a whole in their defence. You could argue that there are counters to this such as units that outrange defense structures (V3 rockets ect), but a good turtler can take care of those.

The super weapon has enough drawbacks (you have to tech up, it costs a lot of money AND it has a recharge time) to balance it in most of the games it exists in.

i understand why super weapons were introduced but i still dont like them as the counter for the turtle. there is a reason most games with super weapons never became as popular for competitions as games such as wc3 and sc. I think resource limits are a more effective way of controlling the turtle.

Early strikes and sneak attacks are how i tackle turtles. I never build superweapons. Not only do they make you an instant target for various opponents, it doesnt suit how i play strategy games.

[SirSquidness]

there is a reason most games with super weapons never became as popular for competitions as games such as wc3 and sc.

I rarely play RTS games, so I could be wrong as to what is considered a 'super weapon', but would not a nuke count as one? (See: Starcraft 1+2, Terran)

[Deka]

AoE 2

[That Commander]

I suppose I would play as a 'turtle', but I don't go for super-weapons, I tend to go for overwhelming ground force

[Glasseater]

there is a reason most games with super weapons never became as popular for competitions as games such as wc3 and sc.

I rarely play RTS games, so I could be wrong as to what is considered a 'super weapon', but would not a nuke count as one? (See: Starcraft 1+2, Terran)

for terran to nuke they have to be close to your base with a ghost and you can see where they are targeting and stop it

[Jen]

1. Generals: zero hour

CHALLENGE IS LAID DOWN!

I shall bring guns at dawn!
Edit: You may bring a partner to defeat

[Glasseater]

1. Generals: zero hour

CHALLENGE IS LAID DOWN!

I shall bring guns at dawn!
Edit: You may bring a partner to defeat

ill throw in a challenge for good old zero hour went through a big phase of playing that

[wolfmother]

Early strikes and sneak attacks are how i tackle turtles. I never build superweapons. Not only do they make you an instant target for various opponents, it doesnt suit how i play strategy games.

It works in games/sides which have flame tanks, but I'd be curious to see you try that tactic as GDI or Scrin.

[Jen]

Actually if you're talking CNC:ZH for a turtle, it's usually painful but in a 2v2 scenario a common tatic is to get someone as AIR and someone as GROUND

The Air strikes out the defensive structures (Rockets/Gunners etc) then the ground force overwhelm what mobile units they have... or if you're the GLA, just do small attacks until you build up the sneak attack and then pop in the backdoor for LOLz...

another tatic, a friend slipped a spy into my base and whilst I was busy trying to get in his front door, he aquired my entire power supply system through claiming all my structures! god that pissed me off to no end. so i shot that little bastard and claimed all my structures back! but it took time and it made me rangry

The "Super Weapons"....
USA was a "particle canon"
GLA was either "Missile Attack", "Toxic Missile Attack" or something else..
CHINA was clearly a NUKE (as if you didn't see that one coming?)

[R4N]

GLA was either "Missile Attack", "Toxic Missile Attack" or something else..

Scud storm.

[Glasseater]

ya cant go wrong with a good old super weapon general turtle aurora bombers a few particle cannons emp turrets

[Jen]

I remember when they released that CNC:ZH patch and said "We addressed a balance issue with the aurora bomber". And the patch meant that the bomber cannot be attacked until it's dropped a hot load on your base... that really pissed me off

[R4N]

I remember when they released that CNC:ZH patch and said "We addressed a balance issue with the aurora bomber". And the patch meant that the bomber cannot be attacked until it's dropped a hot load on your base... that really pissed me off

You can kill them before they fire, you need to hit em on a cliff as they are flying low.

[R4N]

ya cant go wrong with a good old super weapon general turtle aurora bombers a few particle cannons emp turrets

fuel air auroras are the most unbalanced thing in ZH

[Glasseater]

auroras can be killed but it is still hard and if super weapons arent limited you got very little hope against a decent player of super weapons general

[Shub0xx]

Is CnC 4 any good? Wanna know if it's worth aquiring.

[wolfmother]

Is CnC 4 any good? Wanna know if it's worth aquiring.

Nope. They turned it into a DOTA clone.

[dead_man]

Actually if you're talking CNC:ZH for a turtle, it's usually painful but in a 2v2 scenario a common tatic is to get someone as AIR and someone as GROUND

The Air strikes out the defensive structures (Rockets/Gunners etc) then the ground force overwhelm what mobile units they have... or if you're the GLA, just do small attacks until you build up the sneak attack and then pop in the backdoor for LOLz...

another tatic, a friend slipped a spy into my base and whilst I was busy trying to get in his front door, he aquired my entire power supply system through claiming all my structures! god that pissed me off to no end. so i shot that little bastard and claimed all my structures back! but it took time and it made me rangry

The "Super Weapons"....
USA was a "particle canon"
GLA was either "Missile Attack", "Toxic Missile Attack" or something else..
CHINA was clearly a NUKE (as if you didn't see that one coming?)

that was always my trick, went GLA with just heaps of defense while they attacked. them thinking im am a noob (i am at RTS) they kept next to nothing covering there base.

secret tunnel into middle of base and 6 rocket guys and i wiped him out

[Glasseater]

Actually if you're talking CNC:ZH for a turtle, it's usually painful but in a 2v2 scenario a common tatic is to get someone as AIR and someone as GROUND

The Air strikes out the defensive structures (Rockets/Gunners etc) then the ground force overwhelm what mobile units they have... or if you're the GLA, just do small attacks until you build up the sneak attack and then pop in the backdoor for LOLz...

another tatic, a friend slipped a spy into my base and whilst I was busy trying to get in his front door, he aquired my entire power supply system through claiming all my structures! god that pissed me off to no end. so i shot that little bastard and claimed all my structures back! but it took time and it made me rangry

The "Super Weapons"....
USA was a "particle canon"
GLA was either "Missile Attack", "Toxic Missile Attack" or something else..
CHINA was clearly a NUKE (as if you didn't see that one coming?)

that was always my trick, went GLA with just heaps of defense while they attacked. them thinking im am a noob (i am at RTS) they kept next to nothing covering there base.

secret tunnel into middle of base and 6 rocket guys and i wiped him out

i always had my base scattered with sentry drones for this very reason

[That Commander]

Hey, I am posting this information just in case you were not aware: EA Games have released the original Red Alert game for download from their site, co-inciding with the launch of Red Alert 3. This version will run on Windows 2000/XP. Will have to test networking to be sure.

Having said that, is anyone interested in a skirmish at the next lan, if it works?

Cheers

**Update:

The version that can be downloaded does not seem to have updated IP based network support.

Cheers

[R4N]

TCP/IP is possible with a hack, i made it work on cnc once.

[That Commander]

Are you referring to this?

CnCNet: About

[R4N]

I actually used westwood chat i believe, but i applied a patch i found online.

I did this like...3 years ago so its long since been forgotten

[Kitfox]

Starcraft

/thread

[Guni]

GlassEater your a babe and you know it ;P i'd play any rts with you.......... !!ANY!!

[Thrillho]

How many people would even be keen for some starcraft? I haven't bothered to play it for years but I was practically raised by it and it alone.